Quotulatiousness

June 25, 2018

The oddly variable careers of Royal Navy ships named HMS Lion

Filed under: Britain, History, Military — Tags: , , — Nicholas @ 05:00

Every now and again, a random question leads me to odd results … in this case I wondered about the Royal Navy ships named HMS Lion, which I remembered as being used for a First World War battlecruiser (Vice-Admiral Beatty’s flagship through the actions at Heligoland Bight and Jutland) and a Cold War light cruiser (whose sister ships were converted into hybrid light cruiser/amphibious assault ships). Earlier ships of that name had even more interesting careers (from the Wikipedia disambiguation page):

HMS Lion, lead ship of the Lion-class of Royal Navy battlecruisers.
Photo from the Imperial War Museum, via Wikimedia Commons.

  • English ship Lion (1511) was a 36-gun ship of the Royal Scottish Navy captured in 1511 and sold in 1513.
  • English ship Lion (1536) was a 50-gun ship built in 1536 and on the navy list until 1559.
  • English ship Lion (1547) was a Scottish ship captured in 1547 and later lost off Harwich.
  • English ship Lion (1557) was a 40-gun ship, also known as Golden Lion. She was rebuilt four times, in 1582, 1609, 1640 and 1658. After her 1609 rebuild she was renamed Red Lion, but this was reverted to Lion after the 1640 rebuild. She was sold in 1698.

Modern naval ships are considered long-in-the-tooth after 25-30 years of service. HMS Lion (the HMS was not consistently applied to royal ships until the eighteenth century, but let’s just let that slide here) of 1557 was only undergoing her first rebuild/life extension at the point a modern ship would already be under consideration for dismantling. She was still in royal service for three more rebuildings, and was sold (not scrapped) after 141 years of active service. But the Royal Navy was far from done with using this name:

  • HMS Lion (1665) was a 6-gun ketch, also known as Young Lion. She was captured from the Dutch in 1665, sold in 1667, repurchased in 1668 and sunk as a foundation at Sheerness in 1673.
  • HMS Lion (1683) was a fifth rate captured from the Algerians in 1683 and sold the same year.
  • HMS Lion (1702) was a 4-gun stores hoy of 99 tons burthen purchased in 1702. A French privateer captured her off Beachy Head in 1708, but she was recaptured in 1709.[1]
  • HMS Lion (1709 hoy) was a 4-gun hoy launched in 1709. She was wrecked in 1752.[2]
  • HMS Lion (1709) was a 60-gun third rate launched in 1709, rebuilt in 1738 and sold in 1765.

Another longer-service veteran than the vast majority of modern naval ships.

  • HMS Lion (1753) was a transport launched in 1753, hulked in 1775, and sold in 1786.
  • HMS Lion (1763) was a cutter purchased in 1763 and sold in 1771.
  • HMS Lion (1774) was a discovery vessel in service from 1774 to 1785.
  • HMS Lion (1777) was a 64-gun third rate launched in 1777. She was used as a sheer hulk from 1816 and was sold for breaking up in 1837.

One assumes the name was changed before 1781, even though the hull was still in use for long after other ships named HMS Lion were respectively in commission and then out of service with the Royal Navy:

  • HMS Lion (1781) was a schooner purchased around 1781 and sold in 1785.
  • HMS Lion (1794) was a 4-gun vessel, originally a Dutch hoy. She was purchased in 1794 and sold in 1795.
  • HMS Lion (1823) was a schooner in service from 1823 and sold in 1826.
  • HMS Lion (1847) was an 80-gun second rate launched in 1847. She was converted to screw propulsion in 1859 and became a training ship after 1871. She was sold for breaking up in 1905.
  • HMS Lion (1910) was a Lion-class battlecruiser launched in 1910 and sold in 1924.
  • HMS Lion (1939) was to have been a Lion-class battleship. She was laid down in 1939, but work was suspended later that year, and again in 1942. The order was finally cancelled in 1945 and she was broken up on the slipway.
  • HMS Lion (C34) was a Tiger-class cruiser launched in 1944 as the Minotaur-class HMS Defence. She was finally completed to a revised design in 1960. She was placed in reserve in 1964 and was scrapped in 1975.

QotD: Gandhi and the British army

Filed under: Africa, History, India, Media, Military, Quotations — Tags: , , , , — Nicholas @ 01:00

The film, moreover, does not give the slightest hint as to Gandhi’s attitude toward blacks, and the viewers of Gandhi would naturally suppose that, since the future Great Soul opposed South African discrimination against Indians, he would also oppose South African discrimination against black people. But this is not so. While Gandhi, in South Africa, fought furiously to have Indians recognized as loyal subjects of the British empire, and to have them enjoy the full rights of Englishmen, he had no concern for blacks whatever. In fact, during one of the “Kaffir Wars” he volunteered to organize a brigade of Indians to put down a Zulu rising, and was decorated himself for valor under fire.

For, yes, Gandhi (Sergeant-Major Gandhi) was awarded Victoria’s coveted War Medal. Throughout most of his life Gandhi had the most inordinate admiration for British soldiers, their sense of duty, their discipline and stoicism in defeat (a trait he emulated himself). He marveled that they retreated with heads high, like victors. There was even a time in his life when Gandhi, hardly to be distinguished from Kipling’s Gunga Din, wanted nothing so much as to be a Soldier of the Queen. Since this is not in keeping with the “spirit” of Gandhi, as decided by Pandit Nehru and Indira Gandhi, it is naturally omitted from the movie.

Richard Grenier, “The Gandhi Nobody Knows”, Commentary, 1983-03-01.

June 24, 2018

Life In The Tomb – WW1 Author Stratis Myrivilis I WHO DID WHAT IN WW1?

Filed under: Books, Europe, Greece, History, Military, WW1 — Tags: , , — Nicholas @ 04:00

The Great War
Published on 23 Jun 2018

Get Life In The Tomb: https://amzn.to/2MF8TMZ [Affiliate Link]

Stratis Myrivilis was a Greek Author, but he was also a soldier that fought in the Balkan Wars, World War 1 and the Greco-Turkish War. His experience in the First World War, was the basis for his most famous novel Life In The Tomb.

Proper Model Making – a rant against the decline of good model shops

Filed under: Business, Gaming, Military, Railways — Tags: , , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

Lindybeige
Published on 1 Jun 2018

A bit of a rant about how youngsters these days are making fewer models. The setting is Helsinki’s Mallikauppa.
Support me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Lindybeige

My source for the information about Charles Lutman were a newspaper article and word of mouth from his grandson.

Many thanks to the shop for letting me shoot this. Here is its website: https://www.mallikauppa.fi

Lindybeige: a channel of archaeology, ancient and medieval warfare, rants, swing dance, travelogues, evolution, and whatever else occurs to me to make.

June 23, 2018

Ian Explains the French Mutinies of 1917

Filed under: France, History, Military, WW1 — Tags: , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published on 24 May 2018

http://www.patreon.com/ForgottenWeapons

Check out my new series of WW1 shirts!
https://shop.bbtv.com/collections/forgotten-weapons

While on the road with Military Historical Tours visiting American battlefields of World War One, I was asked to explain the French mutinies of 1917. This was an extemporaneous lecture, so please forgive any factual errors I may have made (and such errors are entirely my fault, not that of MHT). Please not that I am not a regular tour guide or anything for MHT; I’m on this tour as a participant. Want to take one of their tours yourself? They go all over Europe and Asia, covering sites form WW1, WW2, Korean, and Vietnam:

https://www.miltours.com

June 22, 2018

Second Battle of the Piave River I THE GREAT WAR Week 204

Filed under: Europe, History, Italy, Military, WW1 — Tags: , , , — Nicholas @ 04:00

The Great War
Published on 21 Jun 2018

Even though Austro-Hungarian Field Marshal Svetozar Boroević von Bojna warns against, the Austro-Hungarian Army goes on the offensive in Italy again. In a two-pronged attack Borojevic and Conrad von Hötzendorf attack the Italian positions.

A Brief History of the Jeep

Filed under: History, Military, Technology, USA, WW2 — Tags: , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

KnowledgeHub
Published on 30 May 2018

Jeeps are the original military vehicle that everybody loved so much, it became a civilian. So whats the history of these? Do you care? I mean you clicked on this video bub.

June 20, 2018

Korea adds a second helicopter carrier, may adapt them to carry F-35 aircraft

Filed under: Asia, Japan, Military — Tags: , , , — Nicholas @ 05:00

At Strategy Page, a look at the Korean and Japanese helicopter carrier ships, including the recently launched ROKS Marado, the second ship of the Dodko class:

The Republic of Korea Navy amphibious landing ship ROKS Dokdo (LPH 6111) and the aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73) transit the Sea of Japan (July 27, 2010).
U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Charles Oki via Wikimedia Commons.

During May South Korea launched its second Dokdo class large amphibious ship, the 14,500 ton Marado. The first of these ships, the 14,000 ton LPH (Landing Platform Helicopter) Dokdo entered service in 2007 and the Marado is expected to follow in 2020. In addition to being a bit larger than the first Dokdo, the Marado has a number of new features that enhance its ability to operate as an aircraft carrier. This includes more capable electronics, many of them made in South Korea as well modifications to the flight deck and the hanger deck below.

Both 199 meter long Dokdos are similar in appearance and operation to the larger American amphibious ships. The LPH flight deck can handle helicopters, as well as vertical takeoff jets like the F-35B. The Koreans deny that the ship will be used with these jets, but the capability is there. The LPH normally carries 720 combat troops, a crew of 300, ten tanks, seven amphibious assault vehicle, three towed 155mm howitzers and ten trucks. Dokdos carry fifteen aircraft (two V-22 vertical takeoff transports and 13 helicopters) and two LCAC hovercraft in the well deck for landing troops.

The Marado has a redesigned flight deck that can handle two V-22s at once instead of just one. In addition to a more powerful 3-D surveillance radar for tracking aircraft, Marado has two Phalanx anti-missile systems compared to one Goalkeeper system on Dokdo. South Korea is also going to add a locally developed and manufactured K-SAAM anti-aircraft and anti-missile system. This is similar to the existing U.S. made ESSM but with longer range and an improved guidance system.

JS Izumo DDH-183, sister-ship of the JS Kaga DDH-184, both helicopter-equipped destroyers, officially.

Meanwhile, neighbor Japan has taken the Dokdo concept a bit farther. In early 2017 Japan put into service a second 27,000 ton “destroyer” (the Kaga, DDH 184) that looks exactly like an aircraft carrier. Actually, it looks like an LPH, an amphibious ship type that first appeared in the 1950s. This was noted when Izumo, the first Japanese LPH, was launched in 2012 (and entered service in 2015). The Izumos can carry up to 28 aircraft and are armed only with two Phalanx anti-missile systems and a launcher with sixteen ESSM missiles for anti-missile and anti-aircraft defense.

[…]

The Izumo is part of a trend. In 2009, Japan launched its second Hyuga class “LPH”. Earlier in 2009, it commissioned the first of these “helicopter-carrying destroyers”. This was the first Japanese aircraft to enter service since 1945. The Hyuga class are 197 meter (610 foot) long, 18,000 ton warships that operates up to eleven (mostly SH-60) helicopters from a full-length flight deck. Although called a destroyer, it very much looks like an aircraft carrier. While its primary function is anti-submarine warfare, the Hyuga will also give Japan its first real power projection capability since 1945. The Hyuga was also the largest warship built in Japan since World War II.

South Korea could adapt their Dokdos to handle a few F-35Bs by making the flight deck more heat resistant and rearranging the hanger deck. South Korea is getting land based F-35As which would enable them to determine if it would be worth the time and money to adapt their LPHs to carry some vertical takeoff F-35Bs. Sometimes peacekeeping missions involve some peacemaking and F-35Bs would help with that.

Tank Chats #31 Mark IX | The Tank Museum

Filed under: Britain, History, Military, Technology, WW1 — Tags: , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

The Tank Museum
Published on 3 Feb 2017

The thirty first in a series of short films about some of the vehicles in our collection, presented by The Tank Museum’s historian David Fletcher MBE. The First World War Mark IX, the first armoured personnel carrier, was designed to solve the problem of moving infantry across the battlefield with the fighting tanks.

June 19, 2018

Flying Aircraft Carriers – Reversed Bullets I OUT OF THE TRENCHES

Filed under: Europe, History, Military, USA, WW1 — Tags: , , , — Nicholas @ 06:00

The Great War
Published on 18 Jun 2018

June 18, 2018

The Only German Submarine Attack On US Shore in WW1 I OUT OF THE ETHER

Filed under: Germany, History, Military, USA, WW1 — Tags: , , , — Nicholas @ 04:00

The Great War
Published on 16 Jun 2018

Paul Hodos’ Book about U-Kreuzer: https://amzn.to/2JzXkIY

After a long time, we are back with our format Out Of The Ether and this week we tell you about the only time Germany directly attacked US mainland with a submarine.

June 15, 2018

The French Counter Attack At Matz I THE GREAT WAR Week 203

Filed under: Europe, France, Germany, History, Military, WW1 — Tags: , , , , — Nicholas @ 04:00

The Great War
Published on 14 Jun 2018

The French have cracked the German radio code on the Western Front and use their advantage for a counterattack at Matz. The already hastily planed German attack during Operation Gneisenau is called off after just 4 days. Meanwhile Austria-Hungary plans another offensive in Italy and German and Ottoman forces fight each other in Georgia.

QotD: Churchill on Montgomery

Filed under: Britain, Germany, History, Humour, Military, WW2 — Tags: , , , , — Nicholas @ 01:00

There was a brief firestorm in Britain when a photograph appeared in the press of Montgomery and Gen. Wilhelm Ritter von Thoma, the commander of the Afrika Korps and the highest-ranking German captured at Alamein. After his capture Thoma was brought to the Eighth Army command post, where Montgomery accorded him the respect of one honorable professional soldier to another. The two dined that night, and the photograph of the two generals led Brendan Bracken to send Churchill a memo criticizing Montgomery’s naïveté and noting that it created a bad impression with the public. Churchill merely commented: “I sympathize with Gen. von Thoma. Defeated, humiliated, in captivity, and,” after pausing for effect, “dinner with General Montgomery.”

Carlo d’Este, Warlord: A life of Winston Churchill at war, 1874-1945, 2008.

June 12, 2018

The Goeben & The Breslau – Two German Ships Under Ottoman Flag I THE GREAT WAR On The Road

Filed under: Europe, Germany, History, Middle East, Military, WW1 — Tags: , , , , — Nicholas @ 04:00

The Great War
Published on 11 Jun 2018

How SMS Goeben and SMS Breslau, two German warships in 1914 sailed under Ottoman flag and helped Enver Pasha to get the Ottoman Empire into World War 1.

June 11, 2018

Feature History – Thirty Years’ War

Feature History
Published on 12 Nov 2016

Hello and welcome to Feature History, featuring religious conflict, tragic war, and a really nifty collaboration with Jabzy.
3 Minute History – German Peasant’s War
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeQVAUmyLks

Involvement Chart

Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/FeatureHistory

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