Forgotten Weapons
Published 16 Aug 2016http://www.patreon.com/ForgottenWeapons
When someone makes a “fake” historical gun, they can do so with the intent to deceive or be up-front with the gun’s new manufacture. Those acknowledged reproductions are a great option to have — guns like Uberti reproduction revolvers give us an excellent opportunity to shoot antique designs without the cost of true originals and without the risk of damaging them. On the other hand, creating “antiques” fraudulently to deceive someone into believing they are actually originals is a reprehensible practice.
What about when you don’t know, though? In the Victorian era, it was popular to have fancy antique guns — like these wheellock pistols. Just like today, not everyone could afford to actually go buy a 300-year-old ornate gun, though. So, many people would commission new replicas made (and I’m sure plenty of fraudulent copies were created as well). Fast forward a hundred years or more to the present day, and we have a bit of a conundrum for the potential buyer. Is a gun 100 years old or 400? It takes some substantial experience and knowledge to be able to tell the difference — and yet an acknowledged Victorian copy is still a potentially fantastic piece of workmanship and collectible in its own right.
May 11, 2021
Wheellocks – Real or Fake? And What is “Fake”, Really?
May 8, 2021
Special Presentation: Semiauto Pistols of the 1800s
Forgotten Weapons
Published 19 Sep 2018http://www.patreon.com/ForgottenWeapons
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Today’s Special Presentation is an overview of all the semiautomatic pistols that were actually put into serial production before the year 1900. We have looked at these individually before, but I think it is worthwhile to examine them together in context, to gain a better understanding of what the automatic pistol scene was really like in the last years of the 19th century.
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From the comments:
Joseph Heschmeyer
2 years ago (edited)
“Hi guys, thanks for tuning in for another video on ForgottenWeapons.com. Today we’ll be looking at the science fair project that got me kicked out of middle school.”
May 5, 2021
New Rifles for Old Ammo: The Royal Navy’s Unique SMLE MkI**
Forgotten Weapons
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When the SMLE was adopted by the British, it was to be the new universal rifle for all branches of service, including the Royal Navy. This suited the Navy just fine; they like the features of the new design. However, the Army quickly moved to update their rifles for the new MkVII Spitzer ammunition, and this was an issue. The Navy still had substantial stockpiles of the older round-nose MkVI cartridge, and did not go through it nearly as quickly as the Army. The Navy did not want to simply throw out their ammunition, but the differences in trajectory between the two types of ammunition was substantial. So the Navy opted to adopt its own unique rifle variation, the MkI**. This in effect was the new Army pattern rifle, but with the rear sight still calibrated for the trajectory of MkVI ammunition.
This pattern was first adopted in 1908, using rifles with the then-standard split charger guide. When the fixed charger bridge was adopted, the Navy (which still had plenty of MkVI ammunition) chose to update its MkI** rifles to fixed charger bridges, without making any change to their designation. Once they finally ran out of the older ammunition during World War One, the rifles were updated once again to what was then the standard MkI*** pattern. As a result, intact MkI** rifles — especially ones with the split charger guide — are extremely rare to find today. Many thanks to the owner of these two specimens for giving me access to share them with you!
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May 1, 2021
SMLE MkIII: The Iconic Smelly of World War One
Forgotten Weapons
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In 1907, the British adopted the final major pattern in the evolution of the Short, Magazine, Lee Enfield. Designated the ShtLE MkIII (Short Lee Enfield) at the time, it would be retroactively renamed Rifle No1 MkIII in the 1920s. This new design was simpler and more durable than its predecessors while actually improving the practical accuracy of the rifle. The rear sight protector wings were substantially strengthened, the front sight became a square post, the front sight protectors were opened up to allow more light in, and the rear sight windage adjustment was simplified — while retailing 1 MOA adjustment clicks and 25m elevation adjustments. A new bayonet was also adopted in 1907 for the MkIII. The previous 1903 pattern bayonet was deemed too short, and the British essentially copied the Japanese Type 30 Arisaka bayonet as its new Pattern 1907 — hooked quillion and all.
The example we are looking at in today’s video is a fantastic specimen, as it was sold out of service to an Australian reservist in 1912 having not received any post-production modifications or updates. It is still sighted for the early MkVI round-nose ammunition, for example, and its bayonet retains the hooked quillion. The rifle’s owner died prior to World War One, and the gun remained stored away and forgotten through both World Wars, where virtually all existing service rifles were taken back into service and updated. Only in the 1960s was this one found, making it a pristine collector’s example to show how the MkIII was originally produced.
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April 28, 2021
How Does it Work: Short Recoil Operation
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Correction: Browning invented the pistol slide, but not the overall short recoil system. Maxim was the first to successfully create a short recoil firearm.
Short recoil is the most common system used today in self-loading handguns, and it also used to be fairly popular in machine gun designs. The basic principle is that the bolt and barrel (in a handgun, slide and barrel) are locked together for an initial travel substantially less than the overall length of the cartridge. After typically a few millimeters of travel, the barrel stops and the bolt or slide is able to continue rearward to extract and eject the empty case. Short recoil can be paired with virtually any locking system, but today the Browning tilting barrel system is most common.
Short recoil has never been popular in shoulder rifle, as the reduction in mechanical accuracy from the moving barrel can be undesirable. In handguns and machine guns, this accuracy reduction is generally below the threshold of relevance.
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April 25, 2021
The First SMLE Trials Rifles: Lessons From the Boer War
Forgotten Weapons
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In the aftermath of the Boer War, the British military needed to address critical issues of practical marksmanship with its troops. The Long Lee rifles it had deployed to South Africa suffered significant problems in making real-world hits on the battlefield. In addition to investing in better musketry training, the military chose to radically change its rifles.
In place of the Lee rifles and carbines, a single short rifle pattern would be issued for all branches of service (cavalry, artillery, and infantry). A stripper clip loading system was introduced to speed reloading and a full-length handguard for improving bayonet handling and reducing sight mirage. A windage adjustable rear sight was mandated, and a stout full protective hood added around the front sight. A new nosecap design was implemented to put the weight of the bayonet onto the stock, and not on the barrel where it would impact the rifle’s zero.
Two different patterns of rear sight were considered. The A pattern design was a tangent type sight like a Mauser, pinned at the front. The B pattern used a ladder sight, pinned at the rear. Five hundred of each were made, and put through a rigorous set of remarkably practical field trials. The testing involved not just static shooting for accuracy, but also shooting against timed disappearing targets, camouflaged targets, and snap shooting. The trial winner was the A pattern design, and it went into mass production in 1904 as the Short, Magazine, Lee Enfield Mark I — the first SMLE.
As adopted a few minor changes were made from the trials rifles, most notably a change from a full front sight hood to a pair of stout protective wings, to allow more light onto the sight. In addition, the design was almost immediately updated to a MkI* pattern, with a stronger rear sling swivel, rounded corners on the receiver, and a storage trap added to the buttplate.
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April 22, 2021
Charger-Loading Lee Enfields: The CLLE MkI* and MkII
Forgotten Weapons
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In our continuing series on the development of the British Lee Enfield rifles, we are looking at the CLLE conversions today. In 1907 the British adopted a new universal short rifle (the SMLE) that used charger (aka stripper) clips. Previous models of the Lee in British service had to be loaded one round at a time by hand. In order to make use of the hundreds of thousands of “Long Lee” (and Metford) rifles already manufactured, the British instituted a program to update them with charger guides. The began in 1908 and ran to 1914, although the majority were done in 1909 and 1910. In addition to removing the dust cover and fitting the charger guide, the front sight, rear sight, magazine, and volley sights were all updated. The new sights were windage-adjustable on both front and rear, and calibrated for Mk VI ammunition (although many were later updated again and re-re-calibrated for Mk VII ammunition).
These CLLE rifles would serve as second-line rifles in World War One and even through the end of World War Two.
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April 18, 2021
Boys Mk I Anti-Tank Rifle at the Range
Forgotten Weapons
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(Edit: Tungsten carbine is, of course *denser* than steel, not lighter. Sorry.)
I have done several previous videos on the Boys antitank rifle, but never actually fired one — until today! We’re out at the range with a MkI Boys and five rounds of its .55 Boys ammunition. So let’s see if it’s as painful to shoot as people say …
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April 15, 2021
Britain Goes From Trainer to Competition: the No 8 Mk I
Forgotten Weapons
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Initially intended to be used only by the British Army (the Land Service), in 1950 the No8 rifle’s role was expanded to cover all three services. Unlike the other trainers made up to this point, the No8 MkI was designed as a target and competition rifle, instead of a service rifle reduced in caliber. It has a heavy barrel, a nice trigger converter to cock on open, and a heavy competition type stock. Adopted in 1948 or 1949 (sources differ), a whopping 76,000 were ordered and manufactured by BSA and Fazackerly — they remained in service until finally declared obsolescent by the British in 2014.
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April 10, 2021
Britain’s Only Repeating Enfield Trainer: the No7 Mk I
Forgotten Weapons
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Developed by BSA immediately after World War Two, the No7 MkI training rifle was the only one of the British Enfield trainers to use a magazine. Only 2500 of these rifles were produced, contracted by the Royal Air Force and delivered in 1948. Their magazine is a commercial BSA 5-round magazine modified slightly to latch into a housing inside a regular No4 Enfield magazine body. This makes them a particularly enjoyable rifle for range shooting, as well as one of the scarcest of the standard British trainers.Note that Canada also developed and adopted a No7 MkI .22 rimfire trainer, but that type is a single shot design, and does not share any parts with the British No7 MkI.
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April 7, 2021
Britain’s First Standard Trainer: the No 2 Mk IV*
Forgotten Weapons
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The British military started using training rifles in 1883, with the .297/.230 Morris cartridge in adapted Martini rifles. This would give way to the .22 rimfire cartridge for training shortly after the Boer War, and a substantial variety of rifles converted to .22 rimfire. Standardization would take until 1921, when the “Rifle, short, .22 inch, RF, Mk IV” was formally adopted – a conversion of the No1 MkIII SMLE to a single shot .22 rimfire weapon. This was modified to Mk IV* in 1925, when an empty magazine body was added to the rifle, to act as a brass catcher.
Just to make things more confusing, the nomenclature system was retroactively changed in 1926, and the designation became Rifle, No2 Mk IV*. This rifle is a very simple conversion. It used a standard bolt body, with the striker and bolt head modified for a rimfire type firing pin and .22 caliber extractor. The sight was not even changed; instead a conversion chart was issued with the rifles to specify the proper sight settings for .22 rimfire shooting (ie, set sight to 300yd for shooting at 25yd). These rifles would be used into the 1950s, particularly by India and Australia, who did not produce No4 rifles and thus did not produce No4 trainer conversions either.
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March 31, 2021
“Rosalie”: Trench Art SMLE with a Most Improbable Story
Forgotten Weapons
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Henri Lecorre was a French immigrant to Canada who enlisted in the 22nd Regiment of the Canadian Army in April, 1915. He had a knack for carving things in his rifles, which he started right in basic training, with a Ross rifle he named “Josephine”. That got him sternly rebuked by his Colonel, but he would take up the habit again in 1916 when he arrived in France and began to see combat. At this point the Canadians were issuing SMLE rifles, and Lecorre named his “Rosalie”, after the French bayonet’s nickname.
Lecorre served through 14 major campaigns, and carved each name into his rifle as the years of the war dragged on. He was twice caught and punished for destruction of government property and fined for the cost of the rifle, although he managed to avoid more serious punishment both times. He only embellished the left side of Rosalie, so that his work would be hidden against his leg when standing at attention. By the summer of 1918, Rosalie’s service record included Vimy, Kemmel, St. Eloi, Hoodge, Zellebeck, Courcelette, Bully Grenay, Neuvilles Vaade, Mericour, Lievin, Lens, Cote 70, Passchendaele and Arras.
Fate eventually caught up to Private Lecorre, and in mid-1918 he was seriously wounded in an attack, and woke up in a military hospital in Dieppe. Rosalie was long gone, and Lecorre did not return to combat again.
The story is far from over, however. Rosalie was recovered from the battlefield, and sent back to Enfield with a batch of damaged rifles for refurbishment and reissue. Someone in the factory noticed the carving on it, and it was set aside. The arsenal commander took a liking to it, and it was hung in his office — where it remained for some 30 years. A Canadian officer from the 22nd Regiment noticed it at Enfield — thanks to Lecorre carving his unit’s name into it — during the Second World War, and thought it would be appropriate to return it to the unit’s home town, where the Citadelle Museum was established in 1950, with Rosalie as one of its original exhibits.
In 1956, Lecorre himself happened to visit an exhibition near Quebec City where the museum had set up, and was shocked to see his own Rosalie on display. After some understandable difficulty convincing the officer on duty that it was actually *his* rifle (which Lecorre did by reciting back its serial number unseen), a remarkable reunion took place. The rifle remained with the museum, but now with its full story known. It remains there to this day, on permanent display.
The Citadelle Museum commissioned a reproduction of Rosalie to be used for demonstrations, and it is this rifle which was graciously made available to me for filming, as the original is inaccessible on short notice because of its display case. Many thanks to the Citadelle for the opportunity to present it to you! If you are in Quebec City, make sure to take time to visit them:
https://www.lacitadelle.qc.ca/en/
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March 27, 2021
SA80 History: The First L85 Mockups (Sterling and Stoner)
Forgotten Weapons
Published 5 May 2017Armament Research Services (ARES) is a specialist technical intelligence consultancy, offering expertise and analysis to a range of government and non-government entities in the arms and munitions field. For detailed photos of the guns in this video, don’t miss the ARES companion blog post:
http://armamentresearch.com/british-e…
The British military had been working towards a reduced-power cartridge since the end of World War 2, and the ultimate adoption of the FAL/SLR in 7.62x51mm NATO did not end their interest in the concept. It would not be long before the roots of SA80 would take hold, and today we are looking at the very first mockups of the concept that would become the L85A1 and L86A1.
As part of a preliminary study to decide the basic layout and capabilities of a future new individual weapon and light support weapon, five wooden and metal mockups were produced in conventional and bullpup layouts, and also with/without “dropped” stocks to facilitate sighting. The favored mockup was the bullpup seen here, which gave rise to the whole Enfield Weapon System/SA80 family. It is relevant to note that the concept included a universal standard optical sight from the very outset, as this was a cutting edge concept at the time. In addition, note the small features like safety, sling swivels, and magazine catch, as these would vary back and forth through the development program.
After the wooden guns, two functional (or mostly functional) guns were produced. These were standard off-the-shelf rifles converted into bullpup configuration – one Stoner 63 and one Sterling AR18. Neither company was contacted for licensing or technical assistance.
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March 23, 2021
The Beretta PM-12S Submachine Gun
Forgotten Weapons
Published 22 Apr 2017For several decades, the Beretta company’s handguns and submachine guns were nearly all designed by the very talented Tulio Marengoni … but nothing can last forever. After World War 2, Beretta engineer Domenico Salza began working on a new SMG design, one which would be more compact and more controllable that the M38 family. At roughly the same time, Beretta changed its naming convention to avoid looking like it was still marketing old guns; the Model 38/49 become the Model 1. Each new design took the next number, until in 1958 the Model 12 was introduced.
The Model 12 (and this improved Model 12S) has both forward and rear pistol grips, and a bolt which wraps around the barrel well forward of the chamber. This movement of the reciprocating mass forward helps reduce the gun’s tendency to climb, and makes the Model 12 a quite capable design. It is still in common use with a variety of military and police forces today — including being a common sight in the hands of security guards in Italy today.
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March 20, 2021
The Uzi Submachine Gun: Excellent or Overrated?
Forgotten Weapons
Published 5 Mar 2018The Israeli Uzi has become a truly iconic submachine gun through both its military use and its Hollywood stunts — but how effective is it really?
I found this fully automatic Uzi Model A to be actually rather better than I had expected. Despite the uncomfortable sharp metal stock, the rate of fire and large sights make this a relatively easy gun to shoot. Not one of the absolute best, but certainly above average.
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