{"id":89200,"date":"2024-05-25T05:00:11","date_gmt":"2024-05-25T09:00:11","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/?p=89200"},"modified":"2024-05-24T16:21:36","modified_gmt":"2024-05-24T20:21:36","slug":"education-versus-learning","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/2024\/05\/25\/education-versus-learning\/","title":{"rendered":"&#8220;Education&#8221; versus &#8220;learning&#8221;"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>At <em>Astral Codex Ten<\/em>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.astralcodexten.com\/p\/a-theoretical-case-against-education\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Scott Alexander<\/a> discusses some of the ideas from Bryan Caplan&#8217;s book <em>The Case Against Education<\/em>:<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_89201\" style=\"width: 490px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Ebbinghaus-Forgetting-Curve.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-89201\" style=\"float:right; padding: 0px 0px 10px 25px\" src=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Ebbinghaus-Forgetting-Curve-480x267.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"480\" height=\"267\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-89201\" srcset=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Ebbinghaus-Forgetting-Curve-480x267.png 480w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Ebbinghaus-Forgetting-Curve-853x475.png 853w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Ebbinghaus-Forgetting-Curve-150x83.png 150w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Ebbinghaus-Forgetting-Curve-768x428.png 768w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Ebbinghaus-Forgetting-Curve.png 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 480px) 100vw, 480px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-89201\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Source <a href=\"https:\/\/amplifire.com\/articles\/hacking-the-forgetting-curve-and-the-clinical-implications-of-forgetting\/\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">here<\/a>. Note deranged horizontal axis.<\/p><\/div>\n<blockquote><p>Education isn&#8217;t just about facts. But it&#8217;s partly about facts. Facts are easy to measure, and they&#8217;re a useful signpost for deeper understanding. If someone has never heard of Chaucer, Dickens, Melville, Twain, or Joyce, they probably haven&#8217;t learned to appreciate great literature. If someone can&#8217;t identify Washington, Lincoln, or either Roosevelt, they probably don&#8217;t understand the ebb and flow of American history. So what facts does the average American know?<\/p>\n<p>In a 1999 poll, only <a href=\"https:\/\/news.gallup.com\/poll\/3742\/new-poll-gauges-americans-general-knowledge-levels.aspx\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">66% of Americans<\/a> age 18-29 knew that the US won independence from Britain (as opposed to some other country). <a href=\"https:\/\/www.asc.upenn.edu\/news-events\/news\/americans-civics-knowledge-drops-first-amendment-and-branches-government\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">About 47% of Americans<\/a> can name all three branches of government (executive, legislative, and judicial). <a href=\"https:\/\/www.valdostadailytimes.com\/opinion\/americans-sure-know-their-stooges\/article_4d0d0c66-5980-59ff-ae3e-06bbb045a6ab.html\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">37%<\/a> know the closest planet to the sun (Mercury). <a href=\"https:\/\/www.pewresearch.org\/politics\/2013\/04\/22\/publics-knowledge-of-science-and-technology\/\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">58%<\/a> know which gas causes most global warming (carbon dioxide). <a href=\"https:\/\/www.claimscon.org\/millennial-study\/\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">44%<\/a> know Auschwitz was the site of a concentration camp. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.pewresearch.org\/politics\/2013\/04\/22\/publics-knowledge-of-science-and-technology\/\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Fewer than 50%<\/a> (ie worse than chance) can correctly answer a true-false question about whether electrons are bigger than atoms.<\/p>\n<p>These results are scattered across many polls, which makes them vulnerable to publication bias; I can&#8217;t find a good unified general knowledge survey of the whole population. But there&#8217;s a <a href=\"https:\/\/link.springer.com\/article\/10.3758\/s13428-012-0307-9\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">great survey of university students<\/a>. Keeping in mind that this is a highly selected, extra-smart population, here are some data points:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>85%<\/strong> know who wrote <em>Romeo and Juliet<\/em> (Shakespeare)<\/li>\n<li><strong>56%<\/strong> know the biggest planet (Jupiter)<\/li>\n<li><strong>44%<\/strong> know who rode on horseback in 1775 to warn that the British were coming (Paul Revere)<\/li>\n<li><strong>33%<\/strong> know what organ produces insulin (pancreas)<\/li>\n<li><strong>31%<\/strong> know the capital of Russia (Moscow)<\/li>\n<li><strong>30%<\/strong> know who discovered the Theory of Relativity (Einstein)<\/li>\n<li><strong>19%<\/strong> know what mountain range contains Mt. Everest (Himalayas)<\/li>\n<li><strong>19%<\/strong> know who wrote <em>1984<\/em> (George Orwell)<\/li>\n<li><strong>16%<\/strong> know what word the raven says in Poe&#8217;s &#8220;The Raven&#8221; (&#8220;Nevermore!&#8221;)<\/li>\n<li><strong>10%<\/strong> know the captain&#8217;s name in <em>Moby Dick<\/em> (Ahab)<\/li>\n<li><strong>7%<\/strong> know who discovered, in 1543, that the Earth orbits the sun (Copernicus)<\/li>\n<li><strong>4%<\/strong> know what Chinese religion was founded by Lao Tse (Taoism)<\/li>\n<li><strong>&lt;1%<\/strong> know what city the general Hannibal was from (Carthage)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Remember, these are university students, so the average person&#8217;s performance is worse.<\/p>\n<p>Most of these are the kinds of facts that I would expect school to teach people. Some of them (eg the branches of government) are the foundations of whole subjects, facts that I would expect to get reviewed and built upon many times during a student&#8217;s career. If most people don&#8217;t remember them, there seems to be little hope that they remember basically anything from school. So what&#8217;s school even doing?<\/p>\n<p>Maybe school is why at least a majority of people know the very basics &#8211; like that the US won independence from Britain, or that Shakespeare wrote <em>Romeo and Juliet<\/em>? I&#8217;m not sure this is true. Here are some other questions that got approximately the same level of correct answers as &#8220;Shakespeare wrote <em>Romeo and Juliet<\/em>&#8220;:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>What is the name of the rubber object hit by hockey players? (Puck, <strong>89%<\/strong>)<\/li>\n<li>What is the name of the comic strip character who eats spinach to increase his strength? (Popeye, <strong>82%<\/strong> correct)<\/li>\n<li>What is the name of Dorothy&#8217;s dog in <em>The Wizard of Oz<\/em>? (Toto, <strong>80%<\/strong> correct)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>I don&#8217;t think any of these are taught in school. They&#8217;re absorbed by cultural osmosis. It seems equally likely that <em>Romeo and Juliet<\/em> could be absorbed the same way. Wasn&#8217;t there an Academy-Award-winning <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Shakespeare_in_Love\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">movie<\/a> about Shakespeare writing <em>Romeo and Juliet<\/em> just a decade or so before this study came out? Sure, 19% of people know that Orwell wrote <em>1984<\/em> &#8211; but how many people know t<a href=\"https:\/\/imgflip.com\/memegenerator\/292953520\/1984-Calendar\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">he 1984 Calendar Meme<\/a>, or the &#8220;1984 was not an instruction manual!&#8221; joke, or have heard of the reality show <em>Big Brother<\/em>? Nobody learned those in school, so maybe they learned Orwell&#8217;s name the same place they learned about the other 1984-related stuff.<\/p>\n<p>Okay, so school probably doesn&#8217;t do a great job teaching facts. But maybe it could still teach skills, right?<\/p>\n<p>According to tests, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.wyliecomm.com\/2021\/11\/whats-the-latest-u-s-numeracy-rate\/\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">fewer than 10% of Americans<\/a> are &#8220;proficient&#8221; at PIIAC-defined numeracy skills, even though in theory you need to know algebra to graduate from most public schools.<\/p>\n<p>I took a year of Spanish in middle school, and I cannot speak Spanish today to save my life; that year was completely wasted. Sure, I know things like &#8220;<em>Hola<\/em>!&#8221; and &#8220;<em>Adios<\/em>!&#8221;, but I also know things like &#8220;<em>gringo<\/em>&#8221; and &#8220;<em>Yo quiero<\/em> Taco Bell&#8221; &#8211; this is just cultural osmosis again.<\/p>\n<p>So it seems most people forget almost all of what they learn in school, whether we&#8217;re talking about facts or skills. The remaining pro-school argument would be that even if they forget every <em>specific<\/em> thing, they retain some kind of scaffolding that makes it easier for them to learn and understand new things in the future; ie they keep some sort of <em>overall concept of learning<\/em>. This is a pretty god-of-the-gaps-ish hypothesis, and counterbalanced by all the kids who said school made them hate learning, or made them unable to learn in a non-fake\/rote way, or that they can&#8217;t read books now because they&#8217;re too traumatized from years of being forced to read books that they hate.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>It&#8217;s common-but-trite to encounter people who say things like &#8220;I love learning, but I hated school&#8221; &mdash; I&#8217;ve undoubtedly said that myself many times. A weird experience was having to study a book in school that I&#8217;d already read on my own: it was like an early form of aversion therapy &#8230; here&#8217;s something you loved once, let&#8217;s make you <em>hate it<\/em> now.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>At Astral Codex Ten, Scott Alexander discusses some of the ideas from Bryan Caplan&#8217;s book The Case Against Education: Education isn&#8217;t just about facts. But it&#8217;s partly about facts. Facts are easy to measure, and they&#8217;re a useful signpost for deeper understanding. If someone has never heard of Chaucer, Dickens, Melville, Twain, or Joyce, they [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[32,79,7,13],"tags":[262,1106,956,289,764],"class_list":["post-89200","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-books","category-education","category-history","category-usa","tag-culture","tag-genz","tag-millennials","tag-polls","tag-university"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p2hpV6-ncI","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/89200","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=89200"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/89200\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":89203,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/89200\/revisions\/89203"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=89200"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=89200"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=89200"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}