{"id":70301,"date":"2025-05-27T01:00:24","date_gmt":"2025-05-27T05:00:24","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/?p=70301"},"modified":"2025-05-26T09:30:38","modified_gmt":"2025-05-26T13:30:38","slug":"qotd-refuting-the-state-of-nature-argument-in-leviathan","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/2025\/05\/27\/qotd-refuting-the-state-of-nature-argument-in-leviathan\/","title":{"rendered":"QotD: Refuting the “state of nature” argument in Leviathan<\/em>"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"\"<\/a>Leviathan<\/em> is a brilliant book, well worth reading, in fact one of only two political philosophy texts anyone really needs (Machiavelli’s The Prince<\/em> is the other), but for all its brilliance it can be summed up in a sentence: Peace at any price. The only thing worse than a civil war is a religious war, and Hobbes got to see a war that was one and the same, up close and personal. The problem is, without that context \u2014 without the horrors of the Thirty Years’ War fresh in your eyes and ears and nose \u2014 Hobbes’s conclusions become unacceptable. Peace is nice<\/em>, yeah, but surely not at that<\/em> price …?<\/p>\n

Alas, Hobbes’s method is so seductively useful, and his “state of nature” so seemingly correct (if you don’t think about it too hard, which is easy to do, as Hobbes’s prose is entrancing), that in their haste to reject his conclusions, later thinkers like Locke didn’t stop to question whether or not the premises behind the method are actually true. It helped, too, that Locke (born 1632) came of age as the civil wars were winding down (his father was briefly a Parliamentary cavalry commander); he made his philosophical bones with the Restoration (1660). […]<\/p>\n

It’s easy to get too far into the weeds with this stuff, but I trust everyone takes my point: Because Hobbes presented such a seductive vision, and because he took such sustained criticism by such high-level guys as Locke even as they were adopting his premises and methods<\/em>, we \u2014 later generations of thinkers, almost without exception \u2014 behave as if Hobbes really had done what he said he did, which was to naturalize<\/em> political philosophy. Political science<\/em>, he would’ve said, and unlike the pretentious dweebs who staff those departments in modern universities, he wasn’t kidding \u2014 he really thought the arguments in Leviathan<\/em> were as unassailable and compelling as geometry proofs.<\/p>\n

But they weren’t, and even he knew it. Hobbes is a fascinating personality, but he’s a hard man to like, not least because he’s so irascible. I sympathize, Tommy, I really do, I’m no mean curmudgeon myself, but dude, you were wrong. Recall the fundamental premise of the “state of nature” thought experiment: All men are functionally equal.<\/p>\n

That’s not just wrong, it’s arrant nonsense. It’s hard to think of a statement this side of Karl Marx that’s so backasswards as that one. Far from naturalizing<\/em> political philosophy, Hobbes made it totally artificial, completely mechanical. His social contract requires a bunch of armed-to-the-teeth free agents, of sound mind and body, all ready and willing to defend themselves to the hilt at all times. Women have no place in Hobbes’s world. Nor do children, or the weak, or the halt, the sick, the old …<\/p>\n

In short, although Hobbes is a brilliant observer of human nature, full of acute insight into man and his works, the most famous passage of Leviathan<\/em>, the one to which all modern political philosophy is mere footnotes, has nothing at all of Man in it. It’s baloney, and therefore, everything derived from it is also, on some deep philosophical level, horseshit.<\/p>\n

Severian, “Range Finding III: Natural Law”, Founding Questions<\/em><\/a>, 2021-11-23.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Leviathan is a brilliant book, well worth reading, in fact one of only two political philosophy texts anyone really needs (Machiavelli’s The Prince is the other), but for all its brilliance it can be summed up in a sentence: Peace at any price. The only thing worse than a civil war is a religious war, […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":35193,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[32,4,7,41,11],"tags":[1153,360,650,570,576,1462,1405],"class_list":["post-70301","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-books","category-britain","category-history","category-quotations","category-religion","tag-30yearswar","tag-christianity","tag-civilwar","tag-england","tag-philosophy","tag-severian","tag-thomashobbes"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/06\/favicon.png","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p2hpV6-ihT","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/70301","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=70301"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/70301\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":95835,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/70301\/revisions\/95835"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/35193"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=70301"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=70301"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=70301"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}