{"id":49911,"date":"2019-07-28T05:00:17","date_gmt":"2019-07-28T09:00:17","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/?p=49911"},"modified":"2019-07-27T13:09:33","modified_gmt":"2019-07-27T17:09:33","slug":"fantasy-fleet-notions-for-the-rcn","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/2019\/07\/28\/fantasy-fleet-notions-for-the-rcn\/","title":{"rendered":"&#8220;Fantasy Fleet&#8221; notions for the RCN"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I hate to use the term &#8220;fantasy fleet&#8221; when linking to a <a href=\"https:\/\/coloneltedcampbell.blog\/2019\/07\/27\/more-about-ships-my-plan-4\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Ted Campbell<\/a> article &#8230; he&#8217;s far from being an obsessive who loves amassing lists of cool, gosh-wow hardware, as he&#8217;s a retired former army officer who actually does know what he&#8217;s talking about on military matters. I apply the term because no matter how sensible and practical these suggestions are (and I largely agree with them on those terms), there is no chance the current government or even a Conservative government under the Milk Dud could stand the political heat they&#8217;d take for devoting the kind of ongoing investment a fleet renewal and expansion like this would generate:<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_49912\" style=\"width: 863px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/HMCS-Moncton-in-Baltimore-2012-Wikimedia-Commons.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-49912\" src=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/HMCS-Moncton-in-Baltimore-2012-Wikimedia-Commons-853x498.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"853\" height=\"498\" class=\"size-large wp-image-49912\" srcset=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/HMCS-Moncton-in-Baltimore-2012-Wikimedia-Commons-853x498.jpg 853w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/HMCS-Moncton-in-Baltimore-2012-Wikimedia-Commons-150x88.jpg 150w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/HMCS-Moncton-in-Baltimore-2012-Wikimedia-Commons-480x280.jpg 480w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/HMCS-Moncton-in-Baltimore-2012-Wikimedia-Commons-768x448.jpg 768w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/HMCS-Moncton-in-Baltimore-2012-Wikimedia-Commons.jpg 1280w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 853px) 100vw, 853px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-49912\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The <em>Kingston<\/em>-class Maritime Coastal Defence Vessel (MCDV) <em>HMCS Moncton<\/em> in Baltimore harbour for Sailabration 2012.<br \/>Photo by Acroterion via Wikimedia Commons.<\/p><\/div>\n<blockquote><p>&#8230; Canada&#8217;s 25 years old <em>Kingston<\/em> class vessels have a range of up to 5,000 nautical miles and can carry unmanned aerial vehicles, but they are slow and are designed for underwater warfare, being fitted with specialist payloads to look for mines and other things on the seabed &#8230; The Royal Canadian Navy has said, in the past, that it needs 25\u00b1 surface combatants (the Navy uses the term \u201cbottoms\u201d when it means surface ships) and Canada has, now, 12 of the 30-year-old (but still lethal) <em>Halifax<\/em> class frigates and we also have, right now, 12 very useful little <em>Kingston<\/em> class ships, too. Canada plans (hopes?) to have 12 of the new <em>Type 26<\/em> ships in the future, plus 5 of the very large (6,500+ tons) <em>Harry DeWolf<\/em> class Arctic patrol ships \u2026 so we are going from 24 down to 17?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<div id=\"attachment_42679\" style=\"width: 863px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/03\/HMCS-Calgary-FFH_335.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-42679\" src=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/03\/HMCS-Calgary-FFH_335-853x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"853\" height=\"533\" class=\"size-large wp-image-42679\" srcset=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/03\/HMCS-Calgary-FFH_335-853x533.jpg 853w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/03\/HMCS-Calgary-FFH_335-150x94.jpg 150w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/03\/HMCS-Calgary-FFH_335-480x300.jpg 480w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/03\/HMCS-Calgary-FFH_335-768x480.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 853px) 100vw, 853px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-42679\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Chilean navy boarding team fast-ropes onto the flight deck of RCN <em>Halifax<\/em>-class frigate <em>HMCS Calgary<\/em> (FFH 335) during multinational training exercise <em>Fuerzas Aliadas PANAMAX<\/em> 2009.<br \/>US Navy photo via Wikimedia Commons.<\/p><\/div>\n<blockquote><p>My guesstimate is that a proper Canadian Navy needs, in addition to supply\/support ships, at least:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>2 or 3 large (25,000\u00b1 tons) helicopter carrying &#8220;destroyers,&#8221; (in fact, small aircraft carriers) perhaps like the modern Japanese <em>Izumo<\/em>-class multi-purpose &#8220;destroyers&#8221; (pictured below) to conduct multi-purpose operations, including carrying combat-ready specialized amphibious warfare trained soldiers, on a global basis;<\/li>\n<div id=\"attachment_21600\" style=\"width: 810px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/08\/JS_Izumo_DDH-183_just_after_her_launch.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-21600\" src=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/08\/JS_Izumo_DDH-183_just_after_her_launch.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"530\" class=\"size-full wp-image-21600\" srcset=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/08\/JS_Izumo_DDH-183_just_after_her_launch.jpg 800w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/08\/JS_Izumo_DDH-183_just_after_her_launch-150x99.jpg 150w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/08\/JS_Izumo_DDH-183_just_after_her_launch-480x318.jpg 480w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-21600\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em>JS Izumo<\/em> DDH-183<\/p><\/div>\n<li>8 to 12 Type-26 destroyer-frigates (below) ~ I believe (guess) they will also be named for Canadian provinces, cities or rivers or something;<\/li>\n<div id=\"attachment_39433\" style=\"width: 863px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/Type-26-Global-Combat-Ship-by-BAE-Systems.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-39433\" src=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/Type-26-Global-Combat-Ship-by-BAE-Systems-853x391.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"853\" height=\"391\" class=\"size-large wp-image-39433\" srcset=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/Type-26-Global-Combat-Ship-by-BAE-Systems.png 853w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/Type-26-Global-Combat-Ship-by-BAE-Systems-150x69.png 150w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/Type-26-Global-Combat-Ship-by-BAE-Systems-480x220.png 480w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/Type-26-Global-Combat-Ship-by-BAE-Systems-768x352.png 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 853px) 100vw, 853px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-39433\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em>Type 26<\/em> Global Combat Ship<br \/>(BAE Systems, via Flickr)<\/p><\/div>\n<li>6 to 10 modern corvettes (a modern Dutch design is pictured below), 1,500-ton to 2,500-ton vessels, with a 5,000\u00b1 nautical mile range, each able to carry a helicopter or, at least, a large unmanned aerial vehicle;<\/li>\n<div id=\"attachment_49913\" style=\"width: 863px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Sigma-class-corvette-Kri-diponegoro-Wikimedia-Commons.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-49913\" src=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Sigma-class-corvette-Kri-diponegoro-Wikimedia-Commons-853x640.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"853\" height=\"640\" class=\"size-large wp-image-49913\" srcset=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Sigma-class-corvette-Kri-diponegoro-Wikimedia-Commons-853x640.jpg 853w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Sigma-class-corvette-Kri-diponegoro-Wikimedia-Commons-150x113.jpg 150w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Sigma-class-corvette-Kri-diponegoro-Wikimedia-Commons-480x360.jpg 480w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Sigma-class-corvette-Kri-diponegoro-Wikimedia-Commons-768x576.jpg 768w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Sigma-class-corvette-Kri-diponegoro-Wikimedia-Commons.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 853px) 100vw, 853px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-49913\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em>KRI Diponegoro<\/em> (pennant number 365) of the Indonesian navy. The Sigma (<strong>S<\/strong>hip <strong>I<\/strong>ntegrated <strong>G<\/strong>eometrical <strong>M<\/strong>odularity <strong>A<\/strong>pproach) class is a Dutch modular design that can be built in OPV, corvette, or frigate variants. In 2019, ships of this class are in service with Indonesia, Morocco, and Mexico.<br \/>Photo by Wim Kosten via Wikimedia Commons.<\/p><\/div>\n<li>6 to 10 special purpose, ocean-going (i.e. with a range measured in thousands, not hundreds of nautical miles) underwater warfare vessels to replace the <em>Kingston<\/em>-class ships; and<\/li>\n<div id=\"attachment_49916\" style=\"width: 863px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Canadian-Orca-class-vessel-55-Wikimedia-Commons.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-49916\" src=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Canadian-Orca-class-vessel-55-Wikimedia-Commons-853x334.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"853\" height=\"334\" class=\"size-large wp-image-49916\" srcset=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Canadian-Orca-class-vessel-55-Wikimedia-Commons-853x334.jpg 853w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Canadian-Orca-class-vessel-55-Wikimedia-Commons-150x59.jpg 150w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Canadian-Orca-class-vessel-55-Wikimedia-Commons-480x188.jpg 480w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Canadian-Orca-class-vessel-55-Wikimedia-Commons-768x301.jpg 768w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/Canadian-Orca-class-vessel-55-Wikimedia-Commons.jpg 1260w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 853px) 100vw, 853px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-49916\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The lead vessel of the <em>Orca<\/em>-class in the Gulf Islands on officer training in August, 2007. She is not a commissioned naval ship, so does not bear the HMCS designation. <em>Orca<\/em>s are not generally armed, but the foredeck has been strengthened to allow an M2 12.7mm machine gun to be mounted if necessary.<br \/>Photo via Wikimedia Commons.<\/p><\/div>\n<li>8 to 12 armed &#8220;training&#8221; ships, about 250 tons (about the same as the Finnish <em>Hamina<\/em> class) to replace the (fairly new) <em>Orca<\/em> class vessels, which are not warships. These ships would be, primarily, training vessels, for which there is, always, a pressing need but they could, in emergencies, be used for coastal, constabulary patrol and search and rescue duties, too. The important thing is that they would be real warships, in commission, armed about as well as the <em>Harry DeWolf<\/em> class ships (which would enhance their training value, too) and, therefore, able to &#8220;fight.&#8221;<\/li>\n<p><div id=\"attachment_49915\" style=\"width: 863px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/FNS-Hanko-Finnish-missile-boat-of-the-Hamina-class-Wikimedia-Commons.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-49915\" src=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/FNS-Hanko-Finnish-missile-boat-of-the-Hamina-class-Wikimedia-Commons-853x331.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"853\" height=\"331\" class=\"size-large wp-image-49915\" srcset=\"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/FNS-Hanko-Finnish-missile-boat-of-the-Hamina-class-Wikimedia-Commons-853x331.jpg 853w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/FNS-Hanko-Finnish-missile-boat-of-the-Hamina-class-Wikimedia-Commons-150x58.jpg 150w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/FNS-Hanko-Finnish-missile-boat-of-the-Hamina-class-Wikimedia-Commons-480x186.jpg 480w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/FNS-Hanko-Finnish-missile-boat-of-the-Hamina-class-Wikimedia-Commons-768x298.jpg 768w, https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/07\/FNS-Hanko-Finnish-missile-boat-of-the-Hamina-class-Wikimedia-Commons.jpg 1280w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 853px) 100vw, 853px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-49915\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em>FNS Hanko<\/em>, a Finnish <em>Hamina<\/em>-class missile boat.<br \/>Photo by kallerna via Wikimedia Commons.<\/p><\/div>\n<\/ul>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>In his ideal world (i.e., not the one we&#8217;re living in at the moment), that would be the RCN&#8217;s combat fleet. Submarines, logistical support vessels, and (lots of) helicopters would also be required, which would further put this shopping list out of consideration for a Canadian peacetime government.<\/p>\n<p>One thing to keep in mind for most of us civilians, is that warships operate in very rough environmental conditions even in peacetime, and require much more in the way of maintenance and service than your car or pleasure boat. This is why, even if you have a dozen ships &#8220;in commission&#8221;, you&#8217;ll likely only have eight of them available for deployment as the others will be in various states of maintenance and repair. For operations far from home, you really need three ships for each one actually deployed on active service, to account for the back-shop work to keep the ships afloat, fully staffed, and fully capable, plus transit time for the ship itself getting to and from the area of operations, and adequate leave and out-of-combat rest and recreation for the crews. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I hate to use the term &#8220;fantasy fleet&#8221; when linking to a Ted Campbell article &#8230; he&#8217;s far from being an obsessive who loves amassing lists of cool, gosh-wow hardware, as he&#8217;s a retired former army officer who actually does know what he&#8217;s talking about on military matters. I apply the term because no matter [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":35193,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6,5],"tags":[30,745,61],"class_list":["post-49911","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-cancon","category-military","tag-navy","tag-rcn","tag-ships"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/06\/favicon.png","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p2hpV6-cZ1","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/49911","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=49911"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/49911\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":49919,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/49911\/revisions\/49919"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/35193"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=49911"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=49911"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/quotulatiousness.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=49911"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}