Quotulatiousness

January 27, 2022

What Would Ross Do? The .280 Military Match M10 Rifle

Filed under: Cancon, History, Military, Weapons — Tags: , , , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 15 Sep 2021

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There were many different versions of the Ross straight-pull bolt action rifle made and adopted by the Canadian military. However, the version that Sir Charles Ross thought would be best was only ever made as a small run of prototypes. This rifle was called the Military Match M10, in .280 Ross caliber.

The .280 Ross was a powerful cartridge on par with 7mm Remington Magnum, firing a 140 grain bullet at 3000 fps. This made it very flat-shooting, which Ross saw as ideal for minimizing range estimation errors. Ross’ military experience had been in the Boer War, where long range individual marksmanship was perhaps as important as in any other modern military conflict. For his ideal rifle, he used his M1910 action with a Mauser-style 5-round double-column flush magazine, a finely adjustable rear sight with an aperture for precision shooting but also a notch sight for snap shots. He gave a it a 26 inch barrel — longer than many of the rifles being adopted in the early 1900s, but long enough to have good ballistics and a very long sight radius.

Ross presented his rifle to the Canadian and British militaries, but it was not accepted, because of the British retention of the .303 cartridge if for no other reason. Only about two dozen were made, with serial numbers in the 102XX range. Only perhaps half of those still exist today, and it’s a rare treat to be able to examine this one!

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December 20, 2021

Ross WWI Sniper Rifle w/ Winchester A5 Scope

Filed under: Cancon, History, Military, USA, Weapons, WW1 — Tags: , , , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 23 Aug 2021

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The standard Canadian sniper’s rifle of World War One was the MkIII Ross fitted with a Warner & Swasey “musket sight” purchased from the United States. However, armorers in the field did create sniping rifles using other scopes — in particular the Winchester A5. The A5 was a popular commercial rifle scope at the time, and it found its way onto military rifles for many nations — I have seen examples on Lebel and SMLE rifles as well as of course American Springfields and this Ross.

The A5 was a 5x magnification scope with external adjustments. We don’t know when this example was built into sniper configuration, but it’s provenance is solid (this sort of thing would be relatively easy to counterfeit). Personally, I would much prefer a Winchester A5 over the Warner & Swasey pattern…

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From the comments:

Cole Harris
1 hour ago
The famed Francis Pegahmagabow used a Ross during his service with the Canadian Expeditionary Force during WWI. While the Ross was considered a pretty terrible service rifle because of reliability/durability concerns, on the range it was a superb rifle that he used to great effect. I don’t know if he used irons or not, but he built quite a reputation for marksmanship with the Ross.

If you’d like more information about Francis Pegahmagabow, The Great War channel did a bio special about him and more recently Sabaton wrote a song called “A Ghost in the Trenches” about his military service.

July 1, 2021

Unique Ross Experimental A2 Pistol Prototype

Filed under: Cancon, History, Military, USA, Weapons — Tags: , , , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 13 Mar 2017

This is a very rare Ross automatic pistol, patented in 1903 by Charles Ross, of the Ross Rifle Company in Quebec. It is a short recoil, toggle locked design, made for the .45 Ross proprietary cartridge (although efforts were made, unsuccessfully, to make a .45 ACP version for the US 1907 pistol trials).

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June 2, 2021

Prototype Ross “H5” from 1909

Filed under: Cancon, History, Military, Weapons — Tags: , , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 22 Feb 2021

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The Ross MkII (aka Ross 1905) was a reasonably successful rifle design, but it lacked a few elements that the Canadian military would have preferred. Most significantly, it was not compatible with the charger clip that was introduced for the Lee Enfield rifles in 1907. The rifle we have today is a toolroom prototype Ross from about 1909 that was an experiment in adding clip compatibility. The receiver is a 1905/MkII type, but with a combination stripper clip guide and rear sight screwed onto the rear of the action. It has a 5-round staggered Mauser-type magazine box, a Lee Enfield style buttstock, a 1903 Springfield type bolt stop, and a thinner profile barrel than either the MkII or eventual MkII Ross patterns. The only marking on the rifle is the designation “H5” on the receiver and bolt. Ultimately, virtually none of this rifle’s unique features were included in the finalized MkIII Ross.

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December 15, 2020

Experimental Pre-WWI Ross .30-06 Machine Gun

Filed under: Cancon, History, Military, Weapons — Tags: , , , , — Nicholas @ 04:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 14 Dec 2020

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In August 1913, the British War Office wrote to Sir Charles Ross requesting a sample automatic rifle for trials in the UK. Ross was able to submit a prototype in May 1914, which was tested at Enfield — but only fired 308 rounds before the test ended, suggesting that something important probably broke. The gun was a very strange looking contraption, whose Ross MkIII lineage is visible only in the bolt and front of the receiver forging. A long stroke gas pistol was added, and the action flipped upside-down. A large 25-round magazine was fitted, along with a thumbhole style stock that looks very similar to the grip of a Lewis gun. In addition to one example tested at Enfield in .303 caliber, one other model was send to the US for testing, chambered for .30-06. That is the gun we are looking at today, which came to the Canadian War Museum from the collection stored at Fort Knox in the 1970s and 80s.

Thanks to the Canadian War Museum for providing me access to film this extremely unusual Ross for you!

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August 7, 2020

Myth and Reality of the Ross MkIII Rifle

Filed under: Cancon, History, Military, Weapons, WW1 — Tags: , , , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 16 Jun 2013

There is a long-standing urban legend about the Canadian Ross rifle, a straight-pull bolt action that was used in lieu of the SMLE by Canadian troops early in World War One. The story is that the Ross would sometimes malfunction and blow the bolt back into its shooter’s face, with pretty horrible results. Well, I wanted to learn “the rest of the story” — could this actually happen? What caused it? How could it be prevented? In short, what would a Ross shooter need to know to remain safe? And if I could get some cool footage of a bolt blowing out of a Ross in the process, all the better.

Well, reader Andy very generously provided a sporterized Ross for the experiments, and I started reading into what the issue really was. Turns out that the legend was quite true — you can put a Ross MkIII bolt together the wrong way, and it will allow you to fire without the locking lugs engaged, thus throwing the bolt back out of the gun at high velocity. However, the issue was recognized fairly quickly, and the vast majority of Ross rifles were modified with a safety rivet to prevent this from happening. It is also quite easy to determine if a Ross is assembled correctly, once you know what to look for.

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March 12, 2020

Canadian Ross MkIII Sniper Rifle with Warney & Swasey Scope

Filed under: Cancon, History, Military, USA, Weapons, WW1 — Tags: , , , , — Nicholas @ 04:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 11 Mar 2020

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The Canadian infantry that went to Europe in the early years of World War One were equipped primarily with the Ross MkIII rifle. The Ross would become quite the scandal, and was replaced in service with the SMLE in 1916 — but as a sniper rifle the Ross excelled. Its problems in service were largely based on poor quality ammunition, and this was not an issue for the sniper corps. In addition, Great Britain was having enough trouble equipping its own snipers to have any extra scoped rifles to hand over to the dominions.

And so, the Canadians modified 500 Ross rifles into a sniper configuration using American-sourced Warner & Swasey M1913 “Musket Sight” scopes. These were 5x magnification prismatic scopes, also used by American forces on the M1903 sniper rifle and the M1909 Benet-Mercie machine guns. The scope was not very good, suffering from fogging and other issues, but it was available. The Canadian rifles were made in two batches of 250 each, one in 1915 and one in 1917. This was actually more rifles than needed, and many of them (including the two in this video) remained in Canada for training (and were used at least until 1942).

Canadian Warner & Swasey scopes can be identified by three elements. They have elevation dials marked out to 2400 yards, serial numbers between 1 and 500, and no data plate on top. Canadian scope cases are marked with the serial numbers of the scope and the rifle they were issued with.

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February 29, 2020

Forced-Air Cooling in an Experimental Ross Machine Gun

Filed under: Cancon, History, Military, Weapons, WW1 — Tags: , , , , , — Nicholas @ 04:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 28 Feb 2020

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In addition to building three main patterns of straight-pull bolt action rifle for the Canadian military and the commercial market, Sir Charles Ross also experimented with self-loading rifles. Starting with a standard Ross Mk III, this experimental rifle has a gas piston and trigger to allow automatic fire and a very neat forced-air cooling system. A one-way ratchet mechanism (now broken, unfortunately) spins the fan when the bolt cycles, pushing air into a barrel shroud similar to that of a Lewis gun. This rifle was most likely made in 1915 or 1916 with an eye to a military light machine gun or automatic rifle contract — which never happened.

Thanks to the Canadian War Museum for providing me access to film this Ross for you!

https://www.warmuseum.ca

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Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
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February 3, 2020

Royal NW Mounted Police Ross MkI Carbine & MkII Rifle

Filed under: Cancon, History, Weapons — Tags: , , , , , — Nicholas @ 04:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 31 Jan 2020

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One of the very early clients of the Ross Rifle Company was the Royal North West Mounted Police (later merged with the Dominion Police to form the RCMP). The Mounties purchased 500 Ross MkI carbines, which were actually the only factory-made Ross carbines ever produced. The guns were made in 1904 and delivered in 1905 — and quickly began to show problems. In particular, the bolt stops were unreliable and many springs had poor temper and lost strength. The RNWMP complained to Ross, who agreed to replace the carbines with new MkII Ross rifles.

Those new rifles did not arrive until 1909, and in the intervening years the police went back to issuing their old Lee Metford carbines. When they did finally get new rifles, the police commissioner was leery of their quality, and chose to hold them in storage at Regina headquarters and used for training and marksmanship competition only until he was confident that they were suitable for issue to his troopers. Before that confidence could be gained, however, a fire in the Regina warehouse destroyed all but 34 of them. Ultimately, the force was able to purchase Lee Enfield carbines from the British government in 1914, and never did successfully issue a Ross.

Many thanks to the collector who provided these original RNWMP guns for me to show you!

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6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85740

December 14, 2019

Huot Automatic Rifle: The Ross Goes Full Auto

Filed under: Britain, Cancon, History, Military, Weapons, WW1 — Tags: , , , , , , , — Nicholas @ 06:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 13 Dec 2019

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During World War One, Joseph Alphonse Huot, a Canadian machinist and blacksmith living in Quebec, designed a conversion of the Ross MkIII rifle to become an automatic rifle. The Ross was the standard issue Canadian rifle at the beginning of the war, and Huot wanted to find a way to economically provide Canadian forces with an automatic weapon. His conversion functioned by mounting a gas piston onto the side of the Ross barrel, adding a large action cover and 25-round drum magazine, and a Lewis-style cooling shroud over the barrel.

In initial testing with the Canadian army, the Huot performed well. It was seriously considered for adoption, but had to undergo British testing and approval before that could happen. In British testing (by now near the end of the war), it was found to run well enough and have some positive attributes, but not sufficient to justify replacement of the Lewis Gun. It was rejected, and the Canadian Corps finished the war with the Lewis instead. Huot had spent several years privately developing the weapon and two more working on salary for the Canadian military, and had gone into considerable personal debt for the project. He had secured a deal to receive royalties on production, but that of course came to naught when the design was rejected. Ultimately, he was compensated $25,000 in 1936 (of the $36,000 he claimed to have spent).

Only five of the guns were made in total, with four known to still exist. Two of them are in Ottawa at the Canadian War Museum and one in the Seaforth Highlanders Museum in Vancouver and one in the Army Museum in Halifax.

Thanks to the Canadian War Museum for providing me access to film this Huot for you!

https://www.warmuseum.ca

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Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85704

November 4, 2019

The Ross in the Great War: The Mk III (and MkIIIB)

Filed under: Cancon, History, Military, Weapons, WW1 — Tags: , , , , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 1 Nov 2019

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While the MkII (1905) iteration of the Ross rifle had resolved most of the major mechanical problems from the MkI, it retained a number of characteristics that the Canadian (and British) military was not fond of. In particular, it was not suited to the use of stripper clips. Starting with experimentation on sporting rifles, Ross substantially redesigned the action for the final 1910 pattern – aka the MkIII.

The MkIII used a rotating bolt as before, but with six locking lugs in two rows of three, instead of two large lugs as the MkI and II. The magazine was replaced by a conventional single-stack design, with a stripper clip guide built into the receiver, and with a nicely adjustable rear aperture sight. This would be the model to equip the Canadian infantry who went to Europe to fight in 1914 and 1915 – and it is there that a new set of problems would begin to plague the Ross.

In keeping with its sporting legacy and reputation for outstanding accuracy, the MkIII Ross was made with a rather tight chamber, optimized for the excellent-quality Canadian production .303 ammunition. Britain had been forced to massively increase ammunition supply as the war lengthened, and British standards had widened to accept ammunition that was really of rather questionable quality. The SMLE rifles used by British forces had chambers made to accommodate this, but the Rosses did not. Canadian ammunition was supposed to follow the Canadian troops, but it was usually diverted to other services because of its high quality, and the Canadians left with ammo that was difficult to chamber or extract in the Ross.

This led to men having to beat open rifle bolts, which led to damage to locking lugs, in a viscous circle of escalating problems. By the time of the German gas attack at Ypres, Canadians were ditching their Rosses for Lee Enfields by the thousands, despite specific orders to the contrary. General Haig finally had enough of the issues, and ordered the Ross removed from combat in 1916, to be replaced by the SMLE (which was finally available in sufficient numbers to arm the Canadian troops).

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Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
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November 3, 2019

Ross MkII: Sorry, We’ll Get it Right This Time

Filed under: Cancon, History, Military, Weapons, WW1 — Tags: , , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 30 Oct 2019

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The many significant problems with the Model 1903 / MkI Ross rifle had quickly led to the development of the improved MkII design. This strengthened many parts, including the sights, nosecap, bolt latch, and more. The receiver was made thicker, and an extra set of cams added to make the bolt throw smoother. Primary extraction was added by way of angling the locking lugs. Mk II rifles began to come off the Ross Rifle Company production line in December of 1905.

Between its introduction and its replacement by the MkIII in 1912, the MkII Ross would undergo 5 changes in type, mostly involving different rear sights. However, a distinct “long” pattern was also made, designated the MkII**. This model had a longer barrel and some mechanical changes, and was also fitted with a rear aperture sight and stripper clip guide. These would be very successful in competition shooting at the time, and helped salvage the reputation of the Ross after the problems of the MkI.

Overall, 13,700 “long” MkII Rosses were made along with 124,000 of the “short” type. They did see use in World War One, as armament for Canadian artillery units. They were also used as training rifles by the military, and the US government also purchased 20,000 of the MkII3* pattern for use training the multitudes of new US soldiers joining up to fight in Europe.

Many thanks to the private collectors who allowed me access to their rifles to make this video!

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Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85704

November 2, 2019

Sir Charles Ross was a Jerk: The Martello Tower

Filed under: Cancon, History, Military, Weapons, WW1 — Tags: , , , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 29 Oct 2019

Note: These towers were built by the British, not the French. Sorry!

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Sir Charles Ross was really a jerk sometimes. Not the sort of guy you would want to go into business with.

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Here are the Wikipedia pages on Sir Charles Ross, Bart. and Martello towers.

November 1, 2019

Ross MkI: Canada’s First Battle Rifle

Filed under: Cancon, History, Military, Weapons — Tags: , , , , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

Forgotten Weapons
Published 28 Oct 2019

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Sir Charles Ross was heir to a very wealthy Scottish family, and was a talented if temperamental engineer. He took an interest in firearms and their design, and worked with American and English connections to produce a line of his own straight-pull sporting rifles. Upon returning from the Boer War he looked to expand into the military market.

At this same time, the Canadian government was looking to replenish its arms supplies after the war, and requested Enfield rifles form the British. The request was turned down, as Britain did not have enough supply to spare any for the Canadians. The Canadians were expected to construct their own factory to make rifles of he standard British pattern. Well, the Canadian government was not eager to invest that sort of capital into the project. They investigated buying arms elsewhere, but the consensus was that Canada’s armaments should come from either Britain or from within Canada itself. No good solution was apparent until Sir Charles Ross stepped in.

Ross offered to fund the construction of a factory himself, and use Canadian labor and industry to manufacture Ross rifles for the military. This seemed like an excellent solution — for zero initial cash outlay, the Canadian government would get rifles both designed and produced domestically! The rifles would be chambered for the standard .303 British cartridge, thus handling the British objections about arms compatibility (Ross pointed out that the British themselves used something like 7 different patterns of rifle at the time).

In 1902, Ross and the Canadian government signed a contract for 12,000 rifles to be made in 1903 and 10,000 per year thereafter, at the price of $25 each. In addition to the Canadian military, the Royal North West Mounted Police also adopted the new Ross rifle. Deliveries did not actually begin until 1905, and when they did plenty of disturbing problems arose. The rifles proved fragile and unreliable — and a weak bolt latch periodically allowed the bolt to fall completely out of the rifle on parade drill — not a good start!

Only 10,000 of the Mark I Ross rifles were made, and an improved Mark II pattern would follow as quickly as Ross could make it a reality.

Many thanks to the private collectors who allowed me access to their rifles to make this video!

Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85704

September 20, 2019

Huot: Canada’s Ross-based Prototype Automatic Rifle from WW1

Filed under: Cancon, History, Military, Weapons, WW1 — Tags: , , , , — Nicholas @ 02:00

Bloke on the Range
Published on 18 Jul 2019

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/BlokeOnTheRange

Due to a shortage of Lewis guns and a glut of withdrawn Ross Mk.III rifles once the Canadian Expeditionary Force had been completely re-equipped with Lee-Enfield SMLE rifles, Monsieur Huot proposed to modify Ross rifles into an automatic rifle / light machine gun (LMG) configuration.

5 of these are known to exist, this is number 2, and is in the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada museum in Vancouver: https://www.seaforthhighlanders.ca/ho…

Many thanks to them for the opportunity to handle and film this exceptionally rare piece! Please give them a visit!

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